Comments on: MCM Prep Week: Interview with Joe Sack http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/ SQL Server MCM and MVP, performance tuning, consulting, training, and community building. Sun, 05 Sep 2010 19:47:40 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Robert L Davis http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-19689 Robert L Davis Sun, 11 Apr 2010 00:55:24 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-19689 Hmm, perhaps I should start renting out the extra rooms in my house during the MCM. I could even throw in free transportation to and from campus Monday - Friday. :) I wanted to do the MCM since it was first announced, but I put it off for all the reasons that Gail laid out. I'm local, so I wouldn't have any hotel or travel costs, but I would have had to take 3 weeks of unpaid time off and paid for it myself. When I finally accepted a full-time position at MSFT, I made attending the MCM (and them paying for it) a requirement for accepting the position. I don't expect anyone to go looking for a new job so that they can do this, but if you're changing jobs anyway, it may be a good time to have a conversation about attending the program. Hmm, perhaps I should start renting out the extra rooms in my house during the MCM. I could even throw in free transportation to and from campus Monday – Friday. :)

I wanted to do the MCM since it was first announced, but I put it off for all the reasons that Gail laid out. I’m local, so I wouldn’t have any hotel or travel costs, but I would have had to take 3 weeks of unpaid time off and paid for it myself. When I finally accepted a full-time position at MSFT, I made attending the MCM (and them paying for it) a requirement for accepting the position.

I don’t expect anyone to go looking for a new job so that they can do this, but if you’re changing jobs anyway, it may be a good time to have a conversation about attending the program.

]]> By: Brent Ozar http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-18395 Brent Ozar Wed, 10 Mar 2010 15:12:18 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-18395 Thanks! I'd say the recovery timeline needs to be more like 5 years. I'm still working with clients on SQL 2000, although most of my tuning work is on 2005 these days. Thanks! I’d say the recovery timeline needs to be more like 5 years. I’m still working with clients on SQL 2000, although most of my tuning work is on 2005 these days.

]]> By: Zizebra http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-18393 Zizebra Wed, 10 Mar 2010 14:20:36 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-18393 Brent- thanks for giving us the courage to look at yourself in the mirror. Just love the work you do. Gilamonster I would agree with you, Iam tempted to say for $18000.00 for MCM, sounds unethical for individuals. Chances are you want to recoupe this amount in 2 years, given the rate at which MS is churning out new software, a new version of SQL will come out before you have recovered the money. Brent- thanks for giving us the courage to look at yourself in the mirror. Just love the work you do. Gilamonster I would agree with you, Iam tempted to say for $18000.00 for MCM, sounds unethical for individuals. Chances are you want to recoupe this amount in 2 years, given the rate at which MS is churning out new software, a new version of SQL will come out before you have recovered the money.

]]> By: Log Buffer #179: a Carnival of the Vanities for DBAs | The Pythian Blog http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17881 Log Buffer #179: a Carnival of the Vanities for DBAs | The Pythian Blog Fri, 19 Feb 2010 17:51:37 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17881 [...] blog also has an interview with Joe Sack, “ . . . public face for the SQL MCM [...] [...] blog also has an interview with Joe Sack, “ . . . public face for the SQL MCM [...]

]]> By: Soemthing for the Weekend – SQL Server Links 12/02/10 | John Sansom - SQL Server DBA in the UK http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17687 Soemthing for the Weekend – SQL Server Links 12/02/10 | John Sansom - SQL Server DBA in the UK Sat, 13 Feb 2010 19:22:15 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17687 [...] MCM Prep Week: Interview with Joe Sack – Facinating interview courtesy of Brent Ozar. Have you got what it takes to be a Microsoft Certified Master? [...] [...] MCM Prep Week: Interview with Joe Sack – Facinating interview courtesy of Brent Ozar. Have you got what it takes to be a Microsoft Certified Master? [...]

]]> By: Whats missing in the SQL Certification process? - Simon Sabin UK SQL Consultant's Blog http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17664 Whats missing in the SQL Certification process? - Simon Sabin UK SQL Consultant's Blog Sat, 13 Feb 2010 01:14:51 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17664 [...] http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/ [...] [...] http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/ [...]

]]> By: GilaMonster http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17557 GilaMonster Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:27:38 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17557 It's not just about whether or not you see the value. There's an immense value, but $18 000 (the full price) is a lot of money no matter how you phrase it. I don't know what billing rates are like in the USA, or what kind of increase you could do after MCM, so let me take my situation (since I do know those figures) Assuming that, as a result of MCM, I was able to increase my monthly income by 20% (possible but not likely), it would take over 2 years to recoup the cost of a 3 week course, and that's taking the MVP discounted rate. Financially, that doesn't really make all that much sense. Comparing this to bootcamps is a bad comparison. Those things are expensive for what they are and it's very possible to study up for the cert exams for a fraction of the cost if you have the discipline to study from the training guides. The cost isn't a concern for people working for companies that will send them (like you), it's just a case then of negotiating with the company to persuade them. For the independent people who are paying out of their own pocket, it's a different story. It’s not just about whether or not you see the value. There’s an immense value, but $18 000 (the full price) is a lot of money no matter how you phrase it.

I don’t know what billing rates are like in the USA, or what kind of increase you could do after MCM, so let me take my situation (since I do know those figures)
Assuming that, as a result of MCM, I was able to increase my monthly income by 20% (possible but not likely), it would take over 2 years to recoup the cost of a 3 week course, and that’s taking the MVP discounted rate. Financially, that doesn’t really make all that much sense.

Comparing this to bootcamps is a bad comparison. Those things are expensive for what they are and it’s very possible to study up for the cert exams for a fraction of the cost if you have the discipline to study from the training guides.

The cost isn’t a concern for people working for companies that will send them (like you), it’s just a case then of negotiating with the company to persuade them. For the independent people who are paying out of their own pocket, it’s a different story.

]]> By: GilaMonster http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17554 GilaMonster Thu, 11 Feb 2010 16:01:23 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17554 Yup. My 2 bedroom flat, one bathroom, 1.5 parking spaces (2 if you have small cars), 100m^2 area cost me in total $75000. Bond repayments are under $500/month Yup.

My 2 bedroom flat, one bathroom, 1.5 parking spaces (2 if you have small cars), 100m^2 area cost me in total $75000. Bond repayments are under $500/month

]]> By: John Sansom http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17546 John Sansom Thu, 11 Feb 2010 14:48:13 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17546 I found this interview very interesting indeed! Not sure about 2011 though I’m thinking more 2015 :-) I found this interview very interesting indeed!

Not sure about 2011 though I’m thinking more 2015 :-)

]]> By: Brent Ozar http://www.brentozar.com/archive/2010/02/mcm-prep-week-interview-with-joe-sack/#comment-17534 Brent Ozar Thu, 11 Feb 2010 12:51:41 +0000 http://www.brentozar.com/?p=6729#comment-17534 RBarryYoung - thanks, glad you usually like the stuff at least! About the cost & time question - I struggled with how to ask it, but in my mind, it's not even a question. Either you see the value in getting trained by people like Adam Machanic, Greg Low, Kimberly Tripp, and Paul Randal, or... you don't. I couldn't think of a question I could ask that would help readers understand what that kind of knowledge can do for your hourly rate and your backlog. However, take heart: on Friday, I'll be asking readers how they would improve the MCM given what they know so far. I'm interested to hear how you'd ask the question, and how you would price the MCM relative to traditional boot camps. RBarryYoung – thanks, glad you usually like the stuff at least! About the cost & time question – I struggled with how to ask it, but in my mind, it’s not even a question. Either you see the value in getting trained by people like Adam Machanic, Greg Low, Kimberly Tripp, and Paul Randal, or… you don’t. I couldn’t think of a question I could ask that would help readers understand what that kind of knowledge can do for your hourly rate and your backlog.

However, take heart: on Friday, I’ll be asking readers how they would improve the MCM given what they know so far. I’m interested to hear how you’d ask the question, and how you would price the MCM relative to traditional boot camps.

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